作者 主题: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……  (阅读 5924 次)

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线上 Mounrou

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #30 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 14:28:15 »
...Are you guys even talking about the same thing?   :blink:


The percentage spread of 1d6+12
https://anydice.com/program/12af9
You have the median of 15.5 with almost no variance.
In this case you are pretty much guarantee to have the result you want, so that most of the time you won't even need to roll to know the result.
(Or, on the flip side, with a margin so small, the "weight" of a single point becomes way more important than one simple 1d6, but my math ain't THAT good to show the details... :em016 )


The percentage spread of 9d2
https://anydice.com/program/1f03
You have the median of 13.5, an 80% chance of getting results between 12-15, and 2% each of getting 9/10 and 17/18


Those are completely different mechanically speaking.  :wacko:
« 上次编辑: 2018-12-18, 周二 14:30:58 由 Mounrou »
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #31 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 14:37:37 »
And then there's SilCore that works with d6 take highest + bumping.

Do you think it is easier than just do 12*8?I doubt remembering the highest and lowest and then do plus/minus could be more complex...

(There will not be 36*29 in low levels and common adventures anyway)
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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #32 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 16:04:41 »
可以先决定波动范围需要多大,然后才思考用什么手段实现
比如我是用投%点(100面)来决定
守护光之殿的翡翠骑士,魔女或圣女伊薇利亚啊, 请给予我等进入翡翠与光的世界之匙.

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #33 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 16:39:47 »
And then there's SilCore that works with d6 take highest + bumping.

Do you think it is easier than just do 12*8?I doubt remembering the highest and lowest and then do plus/minus could be more complex...

(There will not be 36*29 in low levels and common adventures anyway)

Actually, yes.

Basic SilCore is:
1. Roll d6s
2. Take highest roll.
>If you have no multiple 6s, then you're done.
3. If you have more than one 6s (e.g. 6,6,6,6,5,4) Than you add +1 for every identical result (in this case, with 4 sixes it becomes 6+3=9)
> It you are rolling physical dice, that means you
i) Either find the highest dice, or,
ii) With multiple 6s, count the number of 6s then +5.

(Kinda weird though that for all of them you're only picking problems with SilCore... Nevermind, that's not important.)

But, AGAIN like I said before:

"You easy isn't my easy." You've been used to your mechanics, your POV will of course be different from mine. And there will always be people who think SilCore is harder to get than your system, cause people are wired differently. (Seriously, if we switch position I won't expect you to get or like my Hexa, cause it's just how we are all wired. I've been through this same hoops for so many times before back when I still cared about these stuffs that I don't do expectations anymore... v=3=v )

Those previous rolls are just there to say that there are more ways to use a dice, not about which of them are better or worse than yours. Again, I don't really care what kind of mechanics you want to use, cause personal preferences are personal. And this here is not a mechanics problem in the first place.

Think about how you are going to sell your POV to the people who don't have them. That's the thing your need to do right now. (Note: "Selling a product" has nothing to do with "trying to get people to agree that your product is the best."
Think like a salesperson, not a loving parent.)

Welp, that's all I have on this, so guess I'll bow out. Good luck man. -w-b
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #34 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 17:01:39 »
说起离散值,我倒是记得芝生居间有一种很独特的做法,|DX-DX|,也就是取两个随机值相减的绝对值,这个结果在每一个区间的概率是完全不同的,极大值的可能性极低(2/可能性数量),而极小值的可能性在X>2时略大于极大值(x/可能性数量)。
下辈子一定要当个蛮子,免得想太多。
帕拉丁冲锋破鞋必出1,这是一种真理
每当我出carry的时候总有人抢中路,每当我出辅助的时候总让我去中单
自从当了DM,豁免骰那是一个比一个大……
[21:54] <玛多卡> .r d20+13 出1我就掀桌
[21:54] <DnDBot> 玛多卡 投擲 出1我就掀桌: 1d20+13=(1)+13=14

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #35 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 17:15:43 »
比起数据,先设计一个足够吸引人的世界观吧


我很可爱,请给我团。

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #36 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 19:21:50 »
And then there's SilCore that works with d6 take highest + bumping.

Do you think it is easier than just do 12*8?I doubt remembering the highest and lowest and then do plus/minus could be more complex...

(There will not be 36*29 in low levels and common adventures anyway)

Actually, yes.

Basic SilCore is:
1. Roll d6s
2. Take highest roll.
>If you have no multiple 6s, then you're done.
3. If you have more than one 6s (e.g. 6,6,6,6,5,4) Than you add +1 for every identical result (in this case, with 4 sixes it becomes 6+3=9)
> It you are rolling physical dice, that means you
i) Either find the highest dice, or,
ii) With multiple 6s, count the number of 6s then +5.

(Kinda weird though that for all of them you're only picking problems with SilCore... Nevermind, that's not important.)

But, AGAIN like I said before:

"You easy isn't my easy." You've been used to your mechanics, your POV will of course be different from mine. And there will always be people who think SilCore is harder to get than your system, cause people are wired differently. (Seriously, if we switch position I won't expect you to get or like my Hexa, cause it's just how we are all wired. I've been through this same hoops for so many times before back when I still cared about these stuffs that I don't do expectations anymore... v=3=v )

Those previous rolls are just there to say that there are more ways to use a dice, not about which of them are better or worse than yours. Again, I don't really care what kind of mechanics you want to use, cause personal preferences are personal. And this here is not a mechanics problem in the first place.

Think about how you are going to sell your POV to the people who don't have them. That's the thing your need to do right now. (Note: "Selling a product" has nothing to do with "trying to get people to agree that your product is the best."
Think like a salesperson, not a loving parent.)

Welp, that's all I have on this, so guess I'll bow out. Good luck man. -w-b


May be this is national problem,we are all learned multiplication formula and can work out all ** x * in 10 seconds.
Vestige In Stratos(《千年之幻想》)规则试作版2.0企划中
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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #37 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 19:32:41 »
想要结果离散一点,简而言之不就是想要BELL CURVE钟型曲线嘛

这很简单啊,XdY,X数愈高,愈接近曲线
像DND/PF常用的1d20,1~20每个数字的机率都是1/20
有些人则喜欢HR用3d6作替代,结果接近1~20,但中间值的机率则比较高,较少出现极端小/大的数字

也有其他像是FATE/FAE使用的FUDGE DICE 4dF,效果等同4d3-8,结果是-4~+4,同样是钟型曲线

>>说起离散值,我倒是记得芝生居间有一种很独特的做法,|DX-DX|,也就是取两个随机值相减的绝对值,这个结果在每一个区间的概率是完全不同的,极大值的可能性极低(2/可能性数量),而极小值的可能性在X>2时略大于极大值(x/可能性数量)。
有些人跑FATE时就会用d6-d6取代4dF,也就是取两个d6相减,如果是-5/+5则视同0/重骰,结果同样是-4~+4,
但dX-dX虽然同样有不同机率,不过那是折线而不是曲线

最后,如果想要详细玩骰子机率的话
我推荐这个网站
anydice.com

离线 千年酱

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #38 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 19:57:07 »
想要结果离散一点,简而言之不就是想要BELL CURVE钟型曲线嘛

这很简单啊,XdY,X数愈高,愈接近曲线
像DND/PF常用的1d20,1~20每个数字的机率都是1/20
有些人则喜欢HR用3d6作替代,结果接近1~20,但中间值的机率则比较高,较少出现极端小/大的数字

也有其他像是FATE/FAE使用的FUDGE DICE 4dF,效果等同4d3-8,结果是-4~+4,同样是钟型曲线

>>说起离散值,我倒是记得芝生居间有一种很独特的做法,|DX-DX|,也就是取两个随机值相减的绝对值,这个结果在每一个区间的概率是完全不同的,极大值的可能性极低(2/可能性数量),而极小值的可能性在X>2时略大于极大值(x/可能性数量)。
有些人跑FATE时就会用d6-d6取代4dF,也就是取两个d6相减,如果是-5/+5则视同0/重骰,结果同样是-4~+4,
但dX-dX虽然同样有不同机率,不过那是折线而不是曲线

最后,如果想要详细玩骰子机率的话
我推荐这个网站
anydice.com

不,我想要的结果是低离散,实现“对战斗节奏的控制”、“压场”和“解场”。

否则对方甩出个抵抗5伤害的牌,这边2-12的伤害,就很难实现这个效果了。
但是如果是4-8,或者干脆就是6不变,就很直观。
« 上次编辑: 2018-12-18, 周二 20:03:00 由 千年酱 »
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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #39 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 20:15:02 »
所以意思是你更希望是浮动低的固定值?
关于这点的话,我其实有过一种想法。
那就是用固定值代替浮动值。
举个例子,正常的骰子是D20,然后随着实力的成长,会变成1+D19,2+D18……直到18+D2

然后有种简洁的做法是,将大部分的检定用两个数值(假设是20和10)做检定,其中的大数字20作为上限(比如D20),小数字10作为固定值(变为10+D10)
« 上次编辑: 2018-12-18, 周二 20:19:35 由 涅薇儿·德拉诺尔 »
下辈子一定要当个蛮子,免得想太多。
帕拉丁冲锋破鞋必出1,这是一种真理
每当我出carry的时候总有人抢中路,每当我出辅助的时候总让我去中单
自从当了DM,豁免骰那是一个比一个大……
[21:54] <玛多卡> .r d20+13 出1我就掀桌
[21:54] <DnDBot> 玛多卡 投擲 出1我就掀桌: 1d20+13=(1)+13=14

离线 千年酱

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #40 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 20:49:03 »
所以意思是你更希望是浮动低的固定值?
关于这点的话,我其实有过一种想法。
那就是用固定值代替浮动值。
举个例子,正常的骰子是D20,然后随着实力的成长,会变成1+D19,2+D18……直到18+D2

然后有种简洁的做法是,将大部分的检定用两个数值(假设是20和10)做检定,其中的大数字20作为上限(比如D20),小数字10作为固定值(变为10+D10)

然而19面骰子,17面骰子,15面骰子的实体……
Vestige In Stratos(《千年之幻想》)规则试作版2.0企划中
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?board=1778.0
V.I.S 对外公开+提意见群:948476585
欢迎大佬们前来指教的说~



离线 涅薇儿·德拉诺尔

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #41 于: 2018-12-18, 周二 23:47:05 »
所以意思是你更希望是浮动低的固定值?
关于这点的话,我其实有过一种想法。
那就是用固定值代替浮动值。
举个例子,正常的骰子是D20,然后随着实力的成长,会变成1+D19,2+D18……直到18+D2

然后有种简洁的做法是,将大部分的检定用两个数值(假设是20和10)做检定,其中的大数字20作为上限(比如D20),小数字10作为固定值(变为10+D10)

然而19面骰子,17面骰子,15面骰子的实体……

这个不需要啊,你只要让每一次变强的时候骰子是特定值就好啊。
比如说第一阶是D12,第二阶是D8,第三阶D6,第四阶D4
下辈子一定要当个蛮子,免得想太多。
帕拉丁冲锋破鞋必出1,这是一种真理
每当我出carry的时候总有人抢中路,每当我出辅助的时候总让我去中单
自从当了DM,豁免骰那是一个比一个大……
[21:54] <玛多卡> .r d20+13 出1我就掀桌
[21:54] <DnDBot> 玛多卡 投擲 出1我就掀桌: 1d20+13=(1)+13=14

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #42 于: 2018-12-19, 周三 14:06:30 »
不是很懂的表示,然而就个人印象比较靠谱的规则不玩杂技总共就一次加减法,一次比大小的布尔,一次投骰,然后可能把里面的某个值翻若干倍(一般也就翻个2倍)而已....楼主这运算怎么样都要来个倍数运算,里面还带个加减法吧?以及我不是很懂啥被动方运算,乘法要对两边....不都是一边报个值,对面收个值算嘛,有什么区别么?
2C2D最高7L,我果然就是弱鸡么.....

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #43 于: 2018-12-19, 周三 14:11:07 »
所以意思是你更希望是浮动低的固定值?
关于这点的话,我其实有过一种想法。
那就是用固定值代替浮动值。
举个例子,正常的骰子是D20,然后随着实力的成长,会变成1+D19,2+D18……直到18+D2

然后有种简洁的做法是,将大部分的检定用两个数值(假设是20和10)做检定,其中的大数字20作为上限(比如D20),小数字10作为固定值(变为10+D10)

然而19面骰子,17面骰子,15面骰子的实体……

这个不需要啊,你只要让每一次变强的时候骰子是特定值就好啊。
比如说第一阶是D12,第二阶是D8,第三阶D6,第四阶D4
这样不如一开始就用3d4之类的骰池,然后到达某个阶段可以让一个骰子出指定值不就好了?我记得好像是神兵玄奇的轻规则就是差不多手法.....还有我不是很懂的压场什么的,既然要卡牌化,直接卡牌标倍数两边出牌对消,结果那来当骰子数不就好了....
« 上次编辑: 2018-12-19, 周三 14:22:23 由 水瓶盖•迷惘记忆•八哥大王I世 »
2C2D最高7L,我果然就是弱鸡么.....

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Re: 关于“频繁乘法运算”对跑团的影响……
« 回帖 #44 于: 2018-12-20, 周四 19:27:15 »
原创规则的时候先明确三点。
1,为什么非做不可,没有现成的可以拿来改改吗?
2,是要自用,还是商用。自用的概念就是自己圈子里开团用,无论是只开一次的短团还是十个DM打算一起开20年的长团。商用,就是打算出版拿去卖。
3,世界观or典型剧本需要传达出怎样的风貌。


搞清楚了,量力而行。
我发现很多人写规则的根本原动力是“我觉得丢D20不爽”,很遗憾,一般人的事件和精力基本上是达成不了这种程度的动机的。
我先放个卷轴在这里,上面记载的咒语足以解决你们生活与跑团中遇到的大部分困境:别把自己太当一回事。